I also agree that we should decouple spec from licenses. We need a way to
add licenses without having to rev the spec. Otherwise we will get lots of
spec revisions or very few license updates.

I know there has been some concern that if the list of licenses is not
"fixed" with the spec version, you won't know what list of licenses you need
to be able to "understand" when you get an SPDX file based on a particular
version of the spec. I'd like to dig into this use case more, since it seems
to me that any tooling or even manual review processes can be designed to
just pull the latest and greatest version of licenses from the website.

The only issue is that you may get an SPDX file that has something marked as
an "Other" license that is now in the standard license repo. That
shouldn't really be a problem, since all the "Other" licenses will have full
license text in the SPDX file.

Here's an example:

Company A creates SPDX on 1/1/2011 using latest set of standard licenses at
that point. They identify:
File A has Standard License A
File B has Standard License B
File C has Other License C
File D has Other License D

On 2/1/2011, License C is added to standard license repo

Company B reviews SPDX on 3/1/2011
All of the info is still valid -- since License C and D are in the SPDX
file. Company B could choose to update the SPDX file as:
File A has Standard License A
File B has Standard License B
File C now has STANDARD License C
File D has Other License D


Am I missing something here?

Kim








On Wed 9/8/10 12:48 PM, "dmg" <dmg@...> wrote:

From the minutes:

Our implicit path had tied a fixed license list of licenses to the
spec rev, but JohnE put forth an impassioned argument as to why they
should be decouples...

I throw my support behind JohnE proposal. It addresses many of the
issues I have discussed before.

--dmg

(hopefully I can make wake up in time for the meeting, but it is tough
to only have 5 hrs of sleep :)



On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Philip Odence
<podence@...> wrote:

Per discussion late meeting, agendas will be going out in bodies of emails
and minutes will go out as links to archive at spdx.org.
I'll strive to get minutes out a week in advance, though I'm behind this
time. Here's where they are posted (note that Kate is still editing, so they
won't be final until tonight) http://www.spdx.org/wiki/minutes-26aug2010
Meeting Time: Sept 9, 8am PDT / 10 am CDT / 11am EDT / 16:00 GMT

Conf call dial-in:
NOTE: THIS NUMBER IS DIFFERENT FROM PAST NUMBERS AND WILL BE CHANGING IN THE
FUTURE.
Conference code:  7812589502
Toll-free dial-in number (U.S. and Canada):  (877) 435-0230
International dial-in number: (253) 336-6732
For those dialing in from other regions, a list of toll free numbers can be
found: https://www.intercallonline.com/portlets/scheduling/viewNumbers/viewNu
mber.do?ownerNumber=6053870&audioType=RP&viewGa=false&ga=OFF
Web:
Note, we will be using a different URL for each meeting for purposes of
taking attendance. When you login please include your full name and company
name, so I can just copy/pate into minutes. THX.
http://blackducksoftware.na6.acrobat.com/spdx9sept10/

Administrative Agenda

Attendance
Approval of minutes
Outreach and evangelism:

Common Messaging/Presentation ­ PhilO

Industry Venues ­ PhilR

Website ­ PhilO/Martin

Roll Out Plans - KimW/JohnE


Action Items
Note: Drafting related action items are embedded in
the Wiki. http://www.spdx.org/wiki/spdx/specification

€ PhilO/Martin - Update on participation page where to join (suggestion was
to put link in text, not just at top, consider "I want to use the spec, vs.
I want to contribute to the spec" in navigation section.
€ Kate- Transfer document (.pdf) back to WIKI.
€ PhilO- Update standard presentation with LinuxCon2010 input
€ Kate- Clean up the sharing analysis to what is accurate.
€ Kate- Publish the current version number of the specification in brackets
behind reference
€ Kim/PhilO- Add and element of 'What's in this for me?" to presentation
€ JeffL (w/Bill/Gary- Update zlib based on new specification
€ All- Look for new examples to add to site.
€ PhilK- Explore possibility of LF hosting source for SPDX tools.
€ Gary- Explore other possible hosting options
€ PhilO- Start making minutes available via link.
€ BillS- Start up RDF sub-group. Solicite members.

Technical Agenda

SPEC - current status and open areas - Kate
RDF focus group - current status - Bill
Tools - update from Gary, and others.


L. Philip Odence
Vice President of Business Development
Black Duck Software, inc.
265 Winter Street, Waltham, MA 02451
Phone: 781.810.1819, Mobile: 781.258.9502
podence@...
http://www.blackducksoftware.com
http://twitter.com/podence
http://www.linkedin.com/in/podence
http://www.networkworld.com/community/odence (my blog)

_______________________________________________
Spdx mailing list
Spdx@...
https://fossbazaar.org/mailman/listinfo/spdx

Kim Weins | Senior Vice President, Marketing
kim.weins@...
Follow me on Twitter @KimAtOpenLogic

650 279 0410 | cell
www.openlogic.com
Follow OpenLogic on Twitter @OpenLogic

OpenLogic, Inc.
Headquarters, Broomfield, Colorado

From the minutes:

Our implicit path had tied a fixed license list of licenses to the
spec rev, but JohnE put forth an impassioned argument as to why they
should be decouples...

I throw my support behind JohnE proposal. It addresses many of the
issues I have discussed before.

--dmg

(hopefully I can make wake up in time for the meeting, but it is tough
to only have 5 hrs of sleep :)



On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Philip Odence
<podence@...> wrote:

Per discussion late meeting, agendas will be going out in bodies of emails
and minutes will go out as links to archive at spdx.org.
I'll strive to get minutes out a week in advance, though I'm behind this
time. Here's where they are posted (note that Kate is still editing, so they
won't be final until tonight) http://www.spdx.org/wiki/minutes-26aug2010
Meeting Time: Sept 9, 8am PDT / 10 am CDT / 11am EDT / 16:00 GMT

Conf call dial-in:
NOTE: THIS NUMBER IS DIFFERENT FROM PAST NUMBERS AND WILL BE CHANGING IN THE
FUTURE.
Conference code:  7812589502
Toll-free dial-in number (U.S. and Canada):  (877) 435-0230
International dial-in number: (253) 336-6732
For those dialing in from other regions, a list of toll free numbers can be
found: https://www.intercallonline.com/portlets/scheduling/viewNumbers/viewNumber.do?ownerNumber=6053870&audioType=RP&viewGa=false&ga=OFF
Web:
Note, we will be using a different URL for each meeting for purposes of
taking attendance. When you login please include your full name and company
name, so I can just copy/pate into minutes. THX.
http://blackducksoftware.na6.acrobat.com/spdx9sept10/

Administrative Agenda

Attendance
Approval of minutes
Outreach and evangelism:

Common Messaging/Presentation – PhilO

Industry Venues – PhilR

Website – PhilO/Martin

Roll Out Plans - KimW/JohnE


Action Items
Note: Drafting related action items are embedded in
the Wiki. http://www.spdx.org/wiki/spdx/specification

• PhilO/Martin - Update on participation page where to join (suggestion was
to put link in text, not just at top, consider "I want to use the spec, vs.
I want to contribute to the spec" in navigation section.
• Kate- Transfer document (.pdf) back to WIKI.
• PhilO- Update standard presentation with LinuxCon2010 input
• Kate- Clean up the sharing analysis to what is accurate.
• Kate- Publish the current version number of the specification in brackets
behind reference
• Kim/PhilO- Add and element of 'What's in this for me?" to presentation
• JeffL (w/Bill/Gary- Update zlib based on new specification
• All- Look for new examples to add to site.
• PhilK- Explore possibility of LF hosting source for SPDX tools.
• Gary- Explore other possible hosting options
• PhilO- Start making minutes available via link.
• BillS- Start up RDF sub-group. Solicite members.

Technical Agenda

SPEC - current status and open areas - Kate
RDF focus group - current status - Bill
Tools - update from Gary, and others.


L. Philip Odence
Vice President of Business Development
Black Duck Software, inc.
265 Winter Street, Waltham, MA 02451
Phone: 781.810.1819, Mobile: 781.258.9502
podence@...
http://www.blackducksoftware.com
http://twitter.com/podence
http://www.linkedin.com/in/podence
http://www.networkworld.com/community/odence (my blog)

_______________________________________________
Spdx mailing list
Spdx@...
https://fossbazaar.org/mailman/listinfo/spdx

--
--dmg

---
Daniel M. German
http://turingmachine.org

Attendance

Approval of minutes

Outreach and evangelism:

Common Messaging/Presentation – PhilO

Industry Venues – PhilR

Website – PhilO/Martin

Roll Out Plans - KimW/JohnE

• PhilO/Martin - Update on participation page where to join (suggestion was to put link in text, not just at top, consider "I want to use the spec, vs. I want to contribute to the spec" in navigation section.

• Kate- Transfer document (.pdf) back to WIKI.

• PhilO- Update standard presentation with LinuxCon2010 input

• Kate- Clean up the sharing analysis to what is accurate.

• Kate- Publish the current version number of the specification in brackets behind reference

• Kim/PhilO- Add and element of 'What's in this for me?" to presentation

• JeffL (w/Bill/Gary- Update zlib based on new specification

• All- Look for new examples to add to site.

• PhilK- Explore possibility of LF hosting source for SPDX tools.

• Gary- Explore other possible hosting options

• PhilO- Start making minutes available via link.

• BillS- Start up RDF sub-group. Solicite members.

SPEC - current status and open areas - Kate
RDF focus group - current status - Bill
Tools - update from Gary, and others.

The Linux Foundation has a Bugzilla instance that we should be able to
use.

* Peter Williams <peter.williams@...> [2010-09-07 16:25]:

--
Martin Michlmayr
Open Source Program Office, Hewlett-Packard

Now that the technical sub-group has initiated its work i think it would be worth having a issue tracking system. This would allow us to reliably track issues with the spec and to make sure nothing falls through the cracks.

Peter Williams
<http://openlogic.com>

Hello,

I may be able to attend the last half-hour of the talk, if my previous
conf call with my partner doesn't extend to much :-(.

Bruno.

kate.stewart@... said on Thu, Sep 02, 2010 at 10:10:20PM -0700:

--
Open Source & Linux Profession Lead EMEA / http://opensource.hp.com
HP/Intel/Red Hat Open Source Solutions Initiative / http://www.hpintelco.net
http://www.HyPer-Linux.org http://mondorescue.org http://project-builder.org
La musique ancienne? http://www.musique-ancienne.org http://www.medieval.org

hi!

Is anybody being successful at building and using ninka? So far I have
not heard from anybody (neither good or bad news).

It was not entirely trivial to get it working: the documentation and the
actual names of files and patches are not in sync, so it cost me about
10 minutes to get everything working (I will send more detailed feedback
after I have had some sleep) but it works now. The output is of course
quite terse, but at least it's something :-)

$ ./ninka.pl ./ninka.pl
./ninka.pl;AGPLv3+;,;2

$ ./ninka.pl /tmp/blaat/gettext-0.15/gettext-tools/src/write-qt.h
/tmp/blaat/gettext-0.15/gettext-tools/src/write-qt.h;GPLv2+;,;1

armijn

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
armijn@... || http://www.gpl-violations.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

hi everybody,

Is anybody being successful at building and using ninka? So far I have
not heard from anybody (neither good or bad news).

Based on feedback we are planning to make a wider release.

thanks again!

--dmg



--
Daniel M. German
http://turingmachine.org/
http://silvernegative.com/
dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca
replace (at) with @ and (dot) with .

Anyone is welcome; Gary, Jeff, Peter have accepted.
Details below.

SDPX RDF Sub-group Mtg 1
Tuesday Sept 7, 11AM eastern time

Toll-free dial-in number (U.S. and Canada): (877) 435-0230
International dial-in number: (253) 336-6732
Conference code: 7833942033

URL:  http://blackducksoftware.na6.acrobat.com/r39125695/


On 9/1/10 4:44 PM, "Gary O'Neall" <gary@...> wrote:

Tuesday 11AM eastern (8AM pacific) works for me.

Gary


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schineller [mailto:bschineller@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 7:09 AM
To: peter.williams@...; Jeff@...; Gary SourceAuditor;
Bruno.Cornec@...; spdx@...
Subject: shout out re: SPDX RDF 'sub-group'

SPDX colleagues:
   As per the last con-call, here's a shout out to those who wish to
collaborate outside of the current bi-weekly calls to focus on the details
of the RDF representation of an SPDX document.

   I've called out individually

peter.williams AT openlogic.com
Jeff AT palamida.com
gary AT sourceauditor.com
Bruno.Cornec AT hp.com

  who I remember commenting on RDF specifics, and thus may form a 'quorum'
to get started, but anyone else who would like to be on this sub-group
please let me know.

  Would you like to participate in a separate concall - I'm proposing
Tuesday Sept 7 at 11am Boston time?  (same time as the bi-weekly calls, to
permit possibility of spanning CA-MA-Europe)


Sampling of issues to tackle:
  working examples  / tools
    Jeff promised an update?
    Gary's github repo for 'prettyprinter' github.com/goneall
  validation
      use of ontology to check integrity constraints ?
  extensibility / relationship to DOAP
  namespace rules /   URI generation conventions
  permanent URLs for licenses RDF (PURL)
  license RDF (use rdfa ??)

  Please respond on your availability and interest - I'd like to have a
'quorum' on our first call, and from there work out how best to collaborate.

Thanks,
 Bill

Bill Schineller
Knowledge Base Manager
Black Duck Software Inc.
T: +1.781.810.1829
F: +1.781.891.5145
E: bschineller@...
http://www.blackducksoftware.com

Bill Schineller
Knowledge Base Manager
Black Duck Software Inc.
T: +1.781.810.1829
F: +1.781.891.5145
E: bschineller@...
http://www.blackducksoftware.com

Tuesday 11AM eastern (8AM pacific) works for me.

Gary

This will work for me.

Jeff

SPDX colleagues:
As per the last con-call, here's a shout out to those who wish to
collaborate outside of the current bi-weekly calls to focus on the details
of the RDF representation of an SPDX document.

I've called out individually

peter.williams AT openlogic.com
Jeff AT palamida.com
gary AT sourceauditor.com
Bruno.Cornec AT hp.com

who I remember commenting on RDF specifics, and thus may form a 'quorum'
to get started, but anyone else who would like to be on this sub-group
please let me know.

Would you like to participate in a separate concall - I'm proposing
Tuesday Sept 7 at 11am Boston time? (same time as the bi-weekly calls, to
permit possibility of spanning CA-MA-Europe)


Sampling of issues to tackle:
working examples / tools
Jeff promised an update?
Gary's github repo for 'prettyprinter' github.com/goneall
validation
use of ontology to check integrity constraints ?
extensibility / relationship to DOAP
namespace rules / URI generation conventions
permanent URLs for licenses RDF (PURL)
license RDF (use rdfa ??)

Please respond on your availability and interest - I'd like to have a
'quorum' on our first call, and from there work out how best to collaborate.

Thanks,
Bill

Bill Schineller
Knowledge Base Manager
Black Duck Software Inc.
T: +1.781.810.1829
F: +1.781.891.5145
E: bschineller@...
http://www.blackducksoftware.com

Bonjour Patrick,

CeCILL licenses have been mentioned before by others as well, so unless someone objects I'll just add them to the next draft with some of the others that have been discussed and advocated as candidates for 1.0 on the maillist.

Thank you for your input.

Merci,
Kate

1) I noticed the license list included some of the GPL
exceptions such
as Autoconf and Bison.  My understanding is that the
text for these
exceptions would be the exception itself (not the full
license) and so
there would need to be a way to pair the exception with the
proper GPL
version in such a way that is distinct from dual and
disjunctive
licensing situations.  Otherwise, we would need to
list each GPL version
with each exception as separate and whole licenses.

Text for each exception, should include exception and original licenses.

Provided that we still go with the license text repository, what about something like a "diff"-standard for exceptions and variations of the standard licenses? (i.e. a standardized syntax describing lines to add to / delete from the original license text)

BR
Soeren

=====================================================================================================================================
This email and any attachments to it contain confidential information and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it
is addressed.If you are not the intended recipient or receive it accidentally, please immediately notify the sender by e-mail and delete
the message and any attachments from your computer system, and destroy all hard copies. If any, please be advised that any unauthorized
disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on this, is illegal and prohibited. Furthermore, any views
or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not represent those of ASUSTeK. Thank you for your cooperation.
=====================================================================================================================================

The license would be embedded in the SPDX file. In fact, you will have
all different licenses in a single place (the SPDX file) for every
project. No need to go back to the source, if it hasn't changed.

an/listinfo/spdx

What is the intended use case for an spdx file? So far it appears to me
that it is supposed to describe one single software package.
If so, I indeed see us attaching giant data amounts of license texts to
tiny data amounts of code, if we embed all license texts into the spdx
file, instead of keeping them in a license repository.


BR
Soeren

=====================================================================================================================================
This email and any attachments to it contain confidential information and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it
is addressed.If you are not the intended recipient or receive it accidentally, please immediately notify the sender by e-mail and delete
the message and any attachments from your computer system, and destroy all hard copies. If any, please be advised that any unauthorized
disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on this, is illegal and prohibited. Furthermore, any views
or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not represent those of ASUSTeK. Thank you for your cooperation.
=====================================================================================================================================

RUFFIN> The problem is that except for licenses like GPL or Apache2 a
RUFFIN> lot of licenses MIT, BSD, Apache1.1 contain a part which is
RUFFIN> different from one license to another (such as the copyright
RUFFIN> and for old BSD the acknowledgement). And most licenses
RUFFIN> contain the obligation to propagate the copyright/license. So
RUFFIN> if you do not keep a copy of such license, the day you want to
RUFFIN> properly package your product with hundreds of open sources,
RUFFIN> you have again to do the job to look for most licenses.

The license would be embedded in the SPDX file. In fact, you will have
all different licenses in a single place (the SPDX file) for every
project. No need to go back to the source, if it hasn't changed.

Next versions of the SPDX will allow you to extract the licenses from
the SPDX and name them.


By the way, Ninka is not bad at extracting this data. Here are two
examples This is a nice one:

* Copyright (c) 2001 Marko Kreen
* All rights reserved.
*
* Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
* modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions
* are met:
* 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
* notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
* 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
* notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
* documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
*
* THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHOR AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND
* ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE
* IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE
* ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE
* FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL
* DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS
* OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION)
* HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT
* LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY
* OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
* SUCH DAMAGE.

that results into:

AllRights,0,Copyright (c) 2001 Marko Kreen ,,
BSDpre,70,,<colon>
BSDcondSource,70,,,above ,,
BSDcondBinary,70,,,,
BSDasIs,10,,,THE AUTHOR AND CONTRIBUTORS ,,A,
BSDWarr,70,,,THE AUTHOR OR CONTRIBUTORS,

----------------------------------------------------------------------
And this one is more complicated:


* Copyright (c) 1983, 1990, 1993
* The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.
*
* Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
* modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions
* are met:
* 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
* notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
* 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
* notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
* documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
* 3. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors
* may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software
* without specific prior written permission.
*
* THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND
* ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE
* IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE
* ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE
* FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL
* DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS
* OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION)
* HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT
* LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY
* OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
* SUCH DAMAGE. */

that results into (yes, the all rights sentence misses the copyright
owner because it is in a different one):

AllRights,0,,,
BSDpre,70,,<colon>
BSDcondSource,70,,,above ,,
BSDcondBinary,70,,,,
BSDcondEndorse,70,,,,the University nor the names of its contributors,specific
BSDasIs,10,,,THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ,,A,
BSDWarr,70,,,THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS,


--
--
Daniel M. German
http://turingmachine.org/
http://silvernegative.com/
dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca
replace (at) with @ and (dot) with .

On 08/31/2010 08:53 AM, Martin Michlmayr wrote:

* Tom spot Callaway <tcallawa@...> [2010-08-24 21:26]:

Drupal is a great CMS, but it is not such a great wiki.

Sure, I'd agree with that. The Drupal wiki functionality has been
enough for our needs so far but MediaWiki (or another proper wiki) is
definitely more powerful.

I've installed MediaWiki on spdx.org now so you can play around with
it there. If we decide this is the way to go, we can point
spdx.org/wiki to it. I've installed the AuthDrupal extension so you
can log into the MediaWiki with your spdx.org account.

http://spdx.org/mediawiki/

This is fantastic, thanks Martin! I'll bring the content from Fedora
over to the spdx.org site this week.

Apologies for missing last Thursday's meeting (Thursdays are... busy for
me). Was there any feedback on the mockups I did?

~tom

* Tom spot Callaway <tcallawa@...> [2010-08-24 21:26]:

Drupal is a great CMS, but it is not such a great wiki.

Sure, I'd agree with that. The Drupal wiki functionality has been
enough for our needs so far but MediaWiki (or another proper wiki) is
definitely more powerful.

I've installed MediaWiki on spdx.org now so you can play around with
it there. If we decide this is the way to go, we can point
spdx.org/wiki to it. I've installed the AuthDrupal extension so you
can log into the MediaWiki with your spdx.org account.

http://spdx.org/mediawiki/

--
Martin Michlmayr
Open Source Program Office, Hewlett-Packard

The problem is that except for licenses like GPL or Apache2 a lot of licenses MIT, BSD, Apache1.1 contain a part which is different from one license to another (such as the copyright and for old BSD the acknowledgement). And most licenses contain the obligation to propagate the copyright/license. So if you do not keep a copy of such license, the day you want to properly package your product with hundreds of open sources, you have again to do the job to look for most licenses.

Michel
Michel.Ruffin@..., PhD
Software Coordination Manager, Bell Labs, Corporate CTO Dpt
Distinguished Member of Technical Staff
Tel +33 (0) 1 3077 7045
Alcatel-Lucent HQ, Centre de Villarceaux
Route De Villejust, 91620 Nozay, France