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Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

Richard Fontana
 

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:58 AM Carmen Bianca Bakker
<carmenbianca@...> wrote:

Even so, slapping a license on an uncopyrightable thing doesn't get you
in any legal trouble, so it's fine.
Except, apparently, if you're a conservative lawyer at certain U.S.
federal government agencies!

Richard
Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

Karsten Klein
 

Hi there,

just our two cents...

When looking at a linux distribution we recently ran into the following package text:

"The contents of this package are ineligible for copyright protection."

We decided to identify this explicitly as license 'none'.

It would be great to have an SPDX-ID for such a case. A tool that matches this text can identify the non-existent license with such id.
One would also be able to mark the own files (i.e. config files) with such an identifier.

Connecting such a case to the public domain appears inappropriate to us. It's not quite what the author intended to say.

Regards,
Karsten
Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

Mark D Baushke <mdb@...>
 

Hi Matija,

Wouldn't that have been lapsus digiti rather than lapsus calami?

I will admit that my latin is mostly self-taught. But a slip of the
finger might be a miskeying rather than the pen, unless you were
scribing with a digital pen or something...

Curious,
-- Mark
Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

Matija Šuklje
 

On torek, 10. marec 2020 14:55:17 CET, Carmen Bianca Bakker wrote:
1) if it is not copyrightable, you have clearly marked it as such, and the SPDX-FileCopyright tag is merely used as a contact for anyone requiring extra info
I would counter that marking something as CC0-1.0 does not clearly
communicate something as uncopyrightable.
You’re correct. Lapsus calami due to writing before finishing my morning tea. CC0-1.0 marks it that whatever that thing is, its author either waives all their rights, or if they can’t do that (e.g. in most of EU) gives you a very permissive right and promisses not to enforce any of the rights that they could not waive. Which is as close to something being in public domain as possible.

As such, ad 1) I meant that if you mark something as CC0-1.0 and that thing is not copyrightable, you have clearly communicated to the public that they should act as if it is in public domain – regardless whether a) it trully is (i.e. uncopyrigtable from the start) rendering the CC0 moot, you b) hereby waived your rights, or c) you hereby gave a very permissive license.


cheers,
Matija
--
gsm: tel:+386.41.849.552
www: https://matija.suklje.name
xmpp: matija.suklje@...
sip: matija_suklje@...
Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

Carmen Bianca Bakker
 

Je mar, 2020-03-10 je 10:04 +0100, Matija Šuklje skribis:
If so, I would still suggest marking it with CC0-1.0 as explained in REUSE:

1) if it is not copyrightable, you have clearly marked it as such, and the
SPDX-FileCopyright tag is merely used as a contact for anyone requiring
extra info
I would counter that marking something as CC0-1.0 does not clearly
communicate something as uncopyrightable.

Even so, slapping a license on an uncopyrightable thing doesn't get you
in any legal trouble, so it's fine.

Kindly,
Carmen
Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

Matija Šuklje
 

Just to clarify … your question is solely about marking your own works – i.e. stuff that if it were copyrightable, you would hold copyright it?

If so, I would still suggest marking it with CC0-1.0 as explained in REUSE:

1) if it is not copyrightable, you have clearly marked it as such, and the SPDX-FileCopyright tag is merely used as a contact for anyone requiring extra info

2) even if it can be deemed copyrightable, you have released it as CC0-1.0, and the SPDX-FileCopyright tag fulfils all its roles.



If you planning to mark files that other people (would) hold copyright in (if they were copyrightable), than that is different and more touchy question.


cheers,
Matija
--
gsm: tel:+386.41.849.552
www: https://matija.suklje.name
xmpp: matija.suklje@...
sip: matija_suklje@...
Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

michael.kaelbling@...
 

I worry that I did not describe my use-case well.  Let me try again.

Rule: in my organization, all our OSS must have have explicit clearance based on SPDX-License-Identifier and SPDX-FileCopyrightText tags. Our OSS should pass REUSE.software scans without complaints of missing copyright information, etc. If this automatic scan fails, then humans have to get involved, which is annoying and time-consuming for each release.

Therefore, I was looking for the way to add "copyright" and licensing information for uncopyrightable materials that is both correct and passes automatic scans.  I definitely want to avoid very dangerous propositions!  I perhaps naively thought that claiming an unenforceable copyright was even more dangerous than claiming that something is uncopyrightable.  I have no legal training and got a bit worried after browsing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyfraud which talks of fines for "false claims of copyright".  The chances of losing such a suit would be negligible, but a new avenue for a nuisance lawsuit would be opened -- that was my thinking.

My "proposal" of an UNCOPYRIGHTABLE keyword, which I abandon, aimed to cover the special case of licensing material that could not be copyrighted.

I have learned that the CC Public Domain Mark can be used for the FileCopyrightText and that something like CC-PDDC can be used for the License-Identifier, with a corresponding text file in LICENSES/...
Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

J Lovejoy
 

oh geez, sorry all - Steve already pointed you all to that discussion!  I missed that URL - my bad!

On Mar 9, 2020, at 8:56 AM, Steve Winslow <swinslow@...> wrote:

Hi Michael, David and Max,

Thanks for your emails. A couple of comments:

Regarding the Creative Commons Public Domain Mark: For items to be added to the SPDX License List, among other requirements there needs to be a corresponding "matching text" that represents the entry that actually goes on the list. You can see these in the texts that are used at https://spdx.org/licenses/CC0-1.0.html and https://spdx.org/licenses/CC-PDDC.html. Is there a corresponding text that is associated with Creative Commons' Public Domain Mark? From some brief searching I'm not coming across one. If there is one then I would encourage adding an issue at https://github.com/spdx/license-list-XML/issues with a link to the text, so that it can be reviewed and considered.

Regarding a more general UNCOPYRIGHTABLE identifier, I would suggest reading the Legal Team's comments on this from April 2013 at https://wiki.spdx.org/view/Legal_Team/Decisions/Dealing_with_Public_Domain_within_SPDX_Files

Best,
Steve


On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 10:41 AM David A. Wheeler <dwheeler@...> wrote:
michael.kaelbling@... [2020-03-09 10:45 +0100]:
> Currently I have a project that includes empty files as placeholders
> and markers.  Because such files are uncopyrightable, I am not sure
> how to tag them.  "NONE" and "NOASSERTION" seem inappropriate.  "NONE"
> does not imply that none is possible, and "NOASSERTION" is not the
> same as an assertion of the uncopyrightablility of an object.  It
> seems inappropriate to claim an unenforceable copyright and license
> it.

Max Mehl - Programme Manager - Free Software Foundation Europe Contact and information:
>Actually, that's one of the two options REUSE suggests:
> * Add a copyright and licensing header anyway
> * Use CC0-1.0 as a license to waive your copyright (I know, the concept
>  of public domain can become complicated depending on the legislation)
> The full FAQ item on this issue: https://reuse.software/faq/#uncopyrightable

As Creative Commons says, "CC0 should not be used to mark works already free of known copyright and database restrictions and in the public domain throughout the world." https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/public-domain/cc0/ The CC0 is intended for the *release* of items to the public domain that would otherwise be copyrighted.

Years ago Creative Commons created a separate item, the "Public Domain Mark", to identify works that were *already* in the public domain: https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/

This discussion reveals an important omission: The SPDX license list needs to add the Creative Commons "public domain mark". Yes, from some points of view it's technically not a license, but when you're trying to figure out what rights the recipient has, it is *definitely* a license.... it's just a license (permission) granted directly through the application of law. The SDPX license currently includes the "Creative Commons Public Domain Dedication and Certification" https://spdx.org/licenses/CC-PDDC.html which combined the features of both, but that was retired years ago and split up into the CC0 and the public domain mark.

--- David A. Wheeler





--
Steve Winslow
Director of Strategic Programs
The Linux Foundation
Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

J Lovejoy
 

Hi all,

Going back to Michael’s original post as seems like we got on a tangent regarding CC public domain mark (which seems like an easier discussion).

I think we need to be clear on what we are talking about:  license short identifiers which correspond to an actual license or public domain text, e.g., Apache-2.0,  or data for use in SPDX specification fields related to licensing (e.g., 3.15 Declared License) which may use an SPDX license expression or NONE (no license info at all) or NOASSERTION. 

In the case of no license info you describe below, NONE would be appropriate.

In terms of definitively declaring something as UNCOPYRIGHTABLE  - I think that is a very dangerous proposition. While there may be some clear cases where copyright does not attach, only a judge can make that determination. To have an option to use in an SPDX document like this would invite incorrect use or people making legal determinations that could very well be incorrect.  I believe we may have discussed this topic in the past, but have not dug into the archives to find evidence.

I do think there is some similarity to repeated requests for a generic public domain tag - we wrote up a rationale for not having that so we’d remember. That rationale write-up is here: https://wiki.spdx.org/view/Legal_Team/Decisions/Dealing_with_Public_Domain_within_SPDX_Files_(DRAFT) (it’s not a draft, but I can’t seem to change the URL…)

I’m not entirely clear on the exact use case here, so please do let me know if I’ve missed something!

Thanks,
Jilayne

On Mar 9, 2020, at 3:45 AM, michael.kaelbling@... wrote:

How should I correctly tag uncopyrightable material?

The U.S. Copyright Office states in https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ33.pdf that some materials are "uncopyrightable because they contain an insufficient amount of authorship."  Examples they give include: names, titles, and blank forms.  Also uncopyrightable are "mere" lists of contents and simple sets of directions.

Currently I have a project that includes empty files as placeholders and markers.  Because such files are uncopyrightable, I am not sure how to tag them.  "NONE" and "NOASSERTION" seem inappropriate.  "NONE" does not imply that none is possible, and "NOASSERTION" is not the same as an assertion of the uncopyrightablility of an object.  It seems inappropriate to claim an unenforceable copyright and license it.

Can we add an UNCOPYRIGHTABLE keyword or license to SPDX?  An UNCOPYRIGHTABLE keyword, like NONE, would not the name of a license file.  While an UNCOPYRIGHTABLE.txt license file could contain text like "this file is inherently uncopyrightable, but you may replace it with copyrightable content".

As a bonus, REUSE.software scans would then be free of false-positives about "missing" copyrights.
SPDX-FileCopyrightText: UNCOPYRIGHTABLE is very different from SPDX-FileCopyrightText: NONE

Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

Philippe Ombredanne
 

Dear David:

David A. Wheeler <dwheeler@...> wrote:
So for example, https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/results?work_title=WORK_NAME&author_title=AUTHOR_NAME&author_href=AUTHOR_URL&curator_title=INDIVIDUAL_NAME&curator_href=INDIVIDUAL_URL&lang=en_US&field1=continue
ends up being displayed as:
This work (WORK_NAME, by AUTHOR_NAME), identified by INDIVIDUAL_NAME, is free of known copyright restrictions.
While just retrieving https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/results reports:
This work is free of known copyright restrictions.
It’s pretty obvious how this works. I suspect the Creative Commons folks would be happy to reveal the full template, they probably have just never been asked.
I think these are generated by this fine Python code [1]

[1] https://github.com/creativecommons/cc.license/blob/a134299fdb0e882b84a2c181afc5588e13ae32df/cc/license/formatters/classes.py#L324

--
Cordially
Philippe Ombredanne
Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

Steve Winslow
 

Thanks David, this is helpful. I've added relevant portions to a new issue at https://github.com/spdx/license-list-XML/issues/988 for discussion and review.

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 11:07 AM Wheeler, David A <dwheeler@...> wrote:

> Regarding the Creative Commons Public Domain Mark: For items to be added to the SPDX License List, among other requirements there needs to be a corresponding "matching text" that represents the entry that actually goes on the list. You can see these in the texts that are used at https://spdx.org/licenses/CC0-1.0.html and https://spdx.org/licenses/CC-PDDC.html. Is there a corresponding text that is associated with Creative Commons' Public Domain Mark? From some brief searching I'm not coming across one. If there is one then I would encourage adding an issue at https://github.com/spdx/license-list-XML/issues with a link to the text, so that it can be reviewed and considered.

 

Re: the "Public Domain Mark”, to retrieve the “matching text” you start from here:

https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/

 

Unfortunately, what they’ve chosen to do is to “auto-fill” the matching text. So what happens is that you get the matching text by retrieving this URL with various fields filled in:

https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/results

 

So for example, https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/results?work_title=WORK_NAME&author_title=AUTHOR_NAME&author_href=AUTHOR_URL&curator_title=INDIVIDUAL_NAME&curator_href=INDIVIDUAL_URL&lang=en_US&field1=continue

ends up being displayed as:

This work (WORK_NAME, by AUTHOR_NAME), identified by INDIVIDUAL_NAME, is free of known copyright restrictions.

 

While just retrieving https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/results reports:

This work is free of known copyright restrictions.

 

It’s pretty obvious how this works. I suspect the Creative Commons folks would be happy to reveal the full template, they probably have just never been asked.

 

 

From: Steve Winslow <swinslow@...>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 10:57 AM
To: Spdx-legal@...
Cc: Max Mehl <max.mehl@...>; michael.kaelbling@...; Wheeler, David A <dwheeler@...>
Subject: Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

 

Hi Michael, David and Max,

 

Thanks for your emails. A couple of comments:

 

 

Regarding a more general UNCOPYRIGHTABLE identifier, I would suggest reading the Legal Team's comments on this from April 2013 at https://wiki.spdx.org/view/Legal_Team/Decisions/Dealing_with_Public_Domain_within_SPDX_Files

 

Best,

Steve

 

 

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 10:41 AM David A. Wheeler <dwheeler@...> wrote:

michael.kaelbling@... [2020-03-09 10:45 +0100]:
> Currently I have a project that includes empty files as placeholders
> and markers.  Because such files are uncopyrightable, I am not sure
> how to tag them.  "NONE" and "NOASSERTION" seem inappropriate.  "NONE"
> does not imply that none is possible, and "NOASSERTION" is not the
> same as an assertion of the uncopyrightablility of an object.  It
> seems inappropriate to claim an unenforceable copyright and license
> it.

Max Mehl - Programme Manager - Free Software Foundation Europe Contact and information:
>Actually, that's one of the two options REUSE suggests:
> * Add a copyright and licensing header anyway
> * Use CC0-1.0 as a license to waive your copyright (I know, the concept
>  of public domain can become complicated depending on the legislation)
> The full FAQ item on this issue: https://reuse.software/faq/#uncopyrightable

As Creative Commons says, "CC0 should not be used to mark works already free of known copyright and database restrictions and in the public domain throughout the world." https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/public-domain/cc0/ The CC0 is intended for the *release* of items to the public domain that would otherwise be copyrighted.

Years ago Creative Commons created a separate item, the "Public Domain Mark", to identify works that were *already* in the public domain: https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/

This discussion reveals an important omission: The SPDX license list needs to add the Creative Commons "public domain mark". Yes, from some points of view it's technically not a license, but when you're trying to figure out what rights the recipient has, it is *definitely* a license.... it's just a license (permission) granted directly through the application of law. The SDPX license currently includes the "Creative Commons Public Domain Dedication and Certification" https://spdx.org/licenses/CC-PDDC.html which combined the features of both, but that was retired years ago and split up into the CC0 and the public domain mark.

--- David A. Wheeler



--

Steve Winslow
Director of Strategic Programs
The Linux Foundation



--
Steve Winslow
Director of Strategic Programs
The Linux Foundation
Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

David A. Wheeler
 

> Regarding the Creative Commons Public Domain Mark: For items to be added to the SPDX License List, among other requirements there needs to be a corresponding "matching text" that represents the entry that actually goes on the list. You can see these in the texts that are used at https://spdx.org/licenses/CC0-1.0.html and https://spdx.org/licenses/CC-PDDC.html. Is there a corresponding text that is associated with Creative Commons' Public Domain Mark? From some brief searching I'm not coming across one. If there is one then I would encourage adding an issue at https://github.com/spdx/license-list-XML/issues with a link to the text, so that it can be reviewed and considered.

 

Re: the "Public Domain Mark”, to retrieve the “matching text” you start from here:

https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/

 

Unfortunately, what they’ve chosen to do is to “auto-fill” the matching text. So what happens is that you get the matching text by retrieving this URL with various fields filled in:

https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/results

 

So for example, https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/results?work_title=WORK_NAME&author_title=AUTHOR_NAME&author_href=AUTHOR_URL&curator_title=INDIVIDUAL_NAME&curator_href=INDIVIDUAL_URL&lang=en_US&field1=continue

ends up being displayed as:

This work (WORK_NAME, by AUTHOR_NAME), identified by INDIVIDUAL_NAME, is free of known copyright restrictions.

 

While just retrieving https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/results reports:

This work is free of known copyright restrictions.

 

It’s pretty obvious how this works. I suspect the Creative Commons folks would be happy to reveal the full template, they probably have just never been asked.

 

 

From: Steve Winslow <swinslow@...>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 10:57 AM
To: Spdx-legal@...
Cc: Max Mehl <max.mehl@...>; michael.kaelbling@...; Wheeler, David A <dwheeler@...>
Subject: Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

 

Hi Michael, David and Max,

 

Thanks for your emails. A couple of comments:

 

 

Regarding a more general UNCOPYRIGHTABLE identifier, I would suggest reading the Legal Team's comments on this from April 2013 at https://wiki.spdx.org/view/Legal_Team/Decisions/Dealing_with_Public_Domain_within_SPDX_Files

 

Best,

Steve

 

 

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 10:41 AM David A. Wheeler <dwheeler@...> wrote:

michael.kaelbling@... [2020-03-09 10:45 +0100]:
> Currently I have a project that includes empty files as placeholders
> and markers.  Because such files are uncopyrightable, I am not sure
> how to tag them.  "NONE" and "NOASSERTION" seem inappropriate.  "NONE"
> does not imply that none is possible, and "NOASSERTION" is not the
> same as an assertion of the uncopyrightablility of an object.  It
> seems inappropriate to claim an unenforceable copyright and license
> it.

Max Mehl - Programme Manager - Free Software Foundation Europe Contact and information:
>Actually, that's one of the two options REUSE suggests:
> * Add a copyright and licensing header anyway
> * Use CC0-1.0 as a license to waive your copyright (I know, the concept
>  of public domain can become complicated depending on the legislation)
> The full FAQ item on this issue: https://reuse.software/faq/#uncopyrightable

As Creative Commons says, "CC0 should not be used to mark works already free of known copyright and database restrictions and in the public domain throughout the world." https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/public-domain/cc0/ The CC0 is intended for the *release* of items to the public domain that would otherwise be copyrighted.

Years ago Creative Commons created a separate item, the "Public Domain Mark", to identify works that were *already* in the public domain: https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/

This discussion reveals an important omission: The SPDX license list needs to add the Creative Commons "public domain mark". Yes, from some points of view it's technically not a license, but when you're trying to figure out what rights the recipient has, it is *definitely* a license.... it's just a license (permission) granted directly through the application of law. The SDPX license currently includes the "Creative Commons Public Domain Dedication and Certification" https://spdx.org/licenses/CC-PDDC.html which combined the features of both, but that was retired years ago and split up into the CC0 and the public domain mark.

--- David A. Wheeler



--

Steve Winslow
Director of Strategic Programs
The Linux Foundation
Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

Steve Winslow
 

Hi Michael, David and Max,

Thanks for your emails. A couple of comments:

Regarding the Creative Commons Public Domain Mark: For items to be added to the SPDX License List, among other requirements there needs to be a corresponding "matching text" that represents the entry that actually goes on the list. You can see these in the texts that are used at https://spdx.org/licenses/CC0-1.0.html and https://spdx.org/licenses/CC-PDDC.html. Is there a corresponding text that is associated with Creative Commons' Public Domain Mark? From some brief searching I'm not coming across one. If there is one then I would encourage adding an issue at https://github.com/spdx/license-list-XML/issues with a link to the text, so that it can be reviewed and considered.

Regarding a more general UNCOPYRIGHTABLE identifier, I would suggest reading the Legal Team's comments on this from April 2013 at https://wiki.spdx.org/view/Legal_Team/Decisions/Dealing_with_Public_Domain_within_SPDX_Files

Best,
Steve


On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 10:41 AM David A. Wheeler <dwheeler@...> wrote:
michael.kaelbling@... [2020-03-09 10:45 +0100]:
> Currently I have a project that includes empty files as placeholders
> and markers.  Because such files are uncopyrightable, I am not sure
> how to tag them.  "NONE" and "NOASSERTION" seem inappropriate.  "NONE"
> does not imply that none is possible, and "NOASSERTION" is not the
> same as an assertion of the uncopyrightablility of an object.  It
> seems inappropriate to claim an unenforceable copyright and license
> it.

Max Mehl - Programme Manager - Free Software Foundation Europe Contact and information:
>Actually, that's one of the two options REUSE suggests:
> * Add a copyright and licensing header anyway
> * Use CC0-1.0 as a license to waive your copyright (I know, the concept
>  of public domain can become complicated depending on the legislation)
> The full FAQ item on this issue: https://reuse.software/faq/#uncopyrightable

As Creative Commons says, "CC0 should not be used to mark works already free of known copyright and database restrictions and in the public domain throughout the world." https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/public-domain/cc0/ The CC0 is intended for the *release* of items to the public domain that would otherwise be copyrighted.

Years ago Creative Commons created a separate item, the "Public Domain Mark", to identify works that were *already* in the public domain: https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/

This discussion reveals an important omission: The SPDX license list needs to add the Creative Commons "public domain mark". Yes, from some points of view it's technically not a license, but when you're trying to figure out what rights the recipient has, it is *definitely* a license.... it's just a license (permission) granted directly through the application of law. The SDPX license currently includes the "Creative Commons Public Domain Dedication and Certification" https://spdx.org/licenses/CC-PDDC.html which combined the features of both, but that was retired years ago and split up into the CC0 and the public domain mark.

--- David A. Wheeler





--
Steve Winslow
Director of Strategic Programs
The Linux Foundation
Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

David A. Wheeler
 

michael.kaelbling@... [2020-03-09 10:45 +0100]:
Currently I have a project that includes empty files as placeholders
and markers.  Because such files are uncopyrightable, I am not sure
how to tag them.  "NONE" and "NOASSERTION" seem inappropriate.  "NONE"
does not imply that none is possible, and "NOASSERTION" is not the
same as an assertion of the uncopyrightablility of an object.  It
seems inappropriate to claim an unenforceable copyright and license
it.
Max Mehl - Programme Manager - Free Software Foundation Europe Contact and information:
Actually, that's one of the two options REUSE suggests:
* Add a copyright and licensing header anyway
* Use CC0-1.0 as a license to waive your copyright (I know, the concept
of public domain can become complicated depending on the legislation)
The full FAQ item on this issue: https://reuse.software/faq/#uncopyrightable
As Creative Commons says, "CC0 should not be used to mark works already free of known copyright and database restrictions and in the public domain throughout the world." https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/public-domain/cc0/ The CC0 is intended for the *release* of items to the public domain that would otherwise be copyrighted.

Years ago Creative Commons created a separate item, the "Public Domain Mark", to identify works that were *already* in the public domain: https://creativecommons.org/choose/mark/

This discussion reveals an important omission: The SPDX license list needs to add the Creative Commons "public domain mark". Yes, from some points of view it's technically not a license, but when you're trying to figure out what rights the recipient has, it is *definitely* a license.... it's just a license (permission) granted directly through the application of law. The SDPX license currently includes the "Creative Commons Public Domain Dedication and Certification" https://spdx.org/licenses/CC-PDDC.html which combined the features of both, but that was retired years ago and split up into the CC0 and the public domain mark.

--- David A. Wheeler
Re: Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

Max Mehl
 

Hi Michael,

~ michael.kaelbling@... [2020-03-09 10:45 +0100]:
Currently I have a project that includes empty files as placeholders
and markers.  Because such files are uncopyrightable, I am not sure
how to tag them.  "NONE" and "NOASSERTION" seem inappropriate.  "NONE"
does not imply that none is possible, and "NOASSERTION" is not the
same as an assertion of the uncopyrightablility of an object.  It
seems inappropriate to claim an unenforceable copyright and license
it.
Actually, that's one of the two options REUSE suggests:
* Add a copyright and licensing header anyway
* Use CC0-1.0 as a license to waive your copyright (I know, the concept
of public domain can become complicated depending on the legislation)

The full FAQ item on this issue: https://reuse.software/faq/#uncopyrightable

Best,
Max

--
Max Mehl - Programme Manager - Free Software Foundation Europe
Contact and information: https://fsfe.org/about/mehl | @mxmehl
Become a supporter of software freedom: https://fsfe.org/join
Tagging of UNCOPYRIGHTABLE material

michael.kaelbling@...
 

How should I correctly tag uncopyrightable material?

The U.S. Copyright Office states in https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ33.pdf that some materials are "uncopyrightable because they contain an insufficient amount of authorship."  Examples they give include: names, titles, and blank forms.  Also uncopyrightable are "mere" lists of contents and simple sets of directions.

Currently I have a project that includes empty files as placeholders and markers.  Because such files are uncopyrightable, I am not sure how to tag them.  "NONE" and "NOASSERTION" seem inappropriate.  "NONE" does not imply that none is possible, and "NOASSERTION" is not the same as an assertion of the uncopyrightablility of an object.  It seems inappropriate to claim an unenforceable copyright and license it.

Can we add an UNCOPYRIGHTABLE keyword or license to SPDX?  An UNCOPYRIGHTABLE keyword, like NONE, would not the name of a license file.  While an UNCOPYRIGHTABLE.txt license file could contain text like "this file is inherently uncopyrightable, but you may replace it with copyrightable content".

As a bonus, REUSE.software scans would then be free of false-positives about "missing" copyrights.
SPDX-FileCopyrightText: UNCOPYRIGHTABLE is very different from SPDX-FileCopyrightText: NONE
Re: SPDX meeting Friday March 13th

Philippe Ombredanne
 

Jilayne:

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 3:53 PM J Lovejoy <opensource@...> wrote:
There is an SPDX room available co-located and after the event for the LF Member
Summit in Lake Tahoe. The SPDX meeting will be Friday afternoon, the 13th - 1pm - 6pm

I was wondering:
- who else will be there from the legal team?
- assuming we can work out sufficient sound going for a call -
who would be inclined to join via phone?
I would have loved to join but my travel plans are already set and I
am leaving Friday. A bit more of an advance notice would have been
needed. Phone would be nice.
--
Cordially
Philippe Ombredanne

+1 650 799 0949 | pombredanne@...
DejaCode - What's in your code?! - http://www.dejacode.com
AboutCode - Open source for open source - https://www.aboutcode.org
nexB Inc. - http://www.nexb.com
Re: SPDX meeting Friday March 13th

Alan Tse
 

I had not realized SPDX was hosting something after the summit so am slated to leave on Thursday evening. I could join via phone though for a portion of that time slot.

On 2/27/20, 3:53 PM, "Spdx-legal@... on behalf of J Lovejoy" <Spdx-legal@... on behalf of opensource@...> wrote:

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Western Digital. Do not click on links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know that the content is safe.


(I know, I’m on a roll - last email from me today!)

There is an SPDX room available co-located and after the event for the LF Member Summit in Lake Tahoe. The SPDX meeting will be Friday afternoon, the 13th - 1pm - 6pm

I was wondering:
- who else will be there from the legal team?
- assuming we can work out sufficient sound going for a call - who would be inclined to join via phone?

Thanks,
Jilayne
Re: update to documentation, use of wiki

Alan Tse
 

Also, GitHub does have built in wiki functionality not to mention multiple ways to generate websites/documentation using the repo functionality. I don't think issues are the best way to capture meeting minutes, but using the existing GitHub functionality does allow for easy cross referencing between issues and other items.

On 2/27/20, 3:39 PM, "Spdx-legal@... on behalf of William Bartholomew" <Spdx-legal@... on behalf of iamwillbar@...> wrote:

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Western Digital. Do not click on links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know that the content is safe.


While I am biased, GitHub issues are pretty useful and some of these
scenarios are pretty well handled with issues and it gives people one
place to look for content. For example, we could create an spdx-meetings
repository, create an issue to capture the notes from each meeting (you
can use markdown, embed images, links, etc.), use labels to categorize
as legal, tech, or general to enable people to filter. Since people can
comment on issues they can leave comments to "approve the minutes", ask
questions, or provide feedback.

Issues can be used for proposals but if the proposal is content heavy
and needs to iterate a lot then I find pull requests are better for this.

If we'd like to pursue these options I'd be happy to create the
repositories, template issues, and write up a bit of a user's guide for
people that are less familiar with GitHub.

William

On 2/27/20 12:53 PM, J Lovejoy wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I made some updates to some of the documentation files in the Github repo today related to some conversation on the call. Would love to have some feedback. See: https://github.com/spdx/license-list-XML/pulls
> (981, 982, 983, 984)
>
> This led me to realize we still refer to the wiki as our working area (and it’s the only place - I think - we have the info about the bi-weekly calls, which is now outdated!) https://wiki.spdx.org/view/Legal_Team
>
> While I have no appetite to shut down the wiki and there are some good resources there, what are thoughts about perhaps redefining how we use it? Off top of head:
> - for meeting minutes
> - recording old decisions (existing, but this could mean we could still opt to record stuff there in the future if it’s deemed the best place?)
> - proposals we are hashing out, but aren’t appropriate for a Github issue
>
> In the spirit of having only one place to update - I’m thinking we might move the call info to the Github readme and remove from the wiki page?? more likely to be seen there.
>
> Thoughts? ideas??
>
> Thanks,
> Jilayne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
SPDX meeting Friday March 13th

J Lovejoy
 

(I know, I’m on a roll - last email from me today!)

There is an SPDX room available co-located and after the event for the LF Member Summit in Lake Tahoe. The SPDX meeting will be Friday afternoon, the 13th - 1pm - 6pm

I was wondering:
- who else will be there from the legal team?
- assuming we can work out sufficient sound going for a call - who would be inclined to join via phone?

Thanks,
Jilayne
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